Pix: L-R Isiaka Mustapha, CEO, People’s Security Monitor, Dr Ahmad Gumi and Kassim Omomia, Executive Editor, PSM shortly after our interview with the Islamic Cleric last week at his Kaduna private residence
FOLLOWING LAST WEEK’S RESPONSES AND CRITICISMS OVER GUMI’S MEDIATING ROLE WITH BANDITS WHICH HIMSELF HAS DENOUNCED FOLLOWING THE PROCLAMATION OF BANDITS AS TERRORISTS BY THE NIGERIAN COURT…A CREW OF PEOPLE’S SECURITY MONITOR TOOK A TRIP TO KADUNA TO MEET WITH THE ISLAMIC SCHOLAR AND IT WAS INDEED A MISSION ACCOMPLISHED FOR PEOPLE’S SECURITY MONITOR. DR AHMAD GUMI AT THE COMFORT OF HIS KADUNA PRIVATE RESIDENCE GRANTED OUR TEAM, THE DUO OF ISIAKA MUSTAPHA, CEO, PEOPLE’S SECURITY MONITOR AND KASSIM OMOMIA, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, PSM A SUPER EXCLUSIVE MARATHON INTERVIEW OVER QUITE A NUMBER OF SECURITY RELATED ISSUES IN NIGERIA, PARTICULARLY HIS MEDIATION ROLE BETWEEN THE BANDITS AND THE GOVERNMENT AND WHY HE OPTED OUT OF HIS PEACE MISSION
Q What is about banditry you know?
A-Banditry is when you have from 1 to 10 people who organize themselves to attack people for material benefits. These are the people we can really call bandits. But the situation we have in Nigeria – a country of about 200 million people having a particular segment of the country with about 100,000 bandits being led by less 130 leaders, and doing one particular stereotype against the country, honestly speaking that cannot be called banditry. It’s something else! We may continue to deceive ourselves about it, pretending to be dealing with bandits, but certainly that’s is not the case. In the true sense of it what we have going on in the country cannot be defined as banditry. People are just protesting over injustice and neglect.
Q-Are you linking this up to the ineffective governance and acute deprivation of the common people in what rightly the government should have provided them with as citizens of Nigeria?
A-The crisis gradually developed to this level apparently due to years of neglect. We can’t really single out any administration for blame; it’s collective blame. We are all culpable of negligence, forgetting that nobody should be left behind in the scheme of things, especially the economic empowerments and the rights of individuals within their country. Adequate sense of belonging must be given to citizens in an ideal nation; but that is not the case in Nigeria.
The sprit of not belonging triggers all manners of agitations. All the agitations are triggered by aggrieved people, but we tend not to ask aggrieved people questions, nobody is bothered to ask questions about your plight or difficulties.
We all just carry on as if all is well. So all these negative attitudes have ended up metamorphosing into what we are presently going through in Nigeria.
Q-Would you describe the bandits as Nigerians, lots of insinuations about their nationalities?
Sure! The bandits are Nigerians no matter the angle you are looking at them, whether from Maiduguri, Yobe, Zamfara , from the North to the South South to South West, they are all Nigerians. Each group is presenting its grievances from the best position of strength it thinks can quickly show their grievances.
All the previous governments were not really bothered about welfare of Nigerians, especially after elections. If you like, cry blood nobody would listen to you, nobody will ask you questions. Injustice, neglect and corruption are main causes of problems in Nigeria.
This explains why about a year ago Nigerians had to go on SARS protest.
Nigerians got tired and had to resort to self help by resorting to violence protest against the authority.
I have just been told of how a taxi driver who went to report kidnappers to the police got detained by the same police without making efforts to investigate the taxi driver’s claims. What is even more worrisome it was that the passengers of the taxi driver were people kidnapped.
Till now the taxi driver is still being held by the police, and nobody can really approach the police over the matter. Believe me in a situation where you cannot even complain about your grievances, the next option for you is to form a group and take laws into your hands, by way of self help.
We are just yet to be a civilized nation that’s why we are confronted with all these problems. In a civilized country, this issue of banditry or whatever they call it could not just last more than one week.
Recently Nigeria’s Army Chief, Major General Farouk Yahaya raised doubts over the sincerity of the bandits who are being offered. Specifically, he said they appeared not ready to disengage from their criminal activities. Would you agree with him.?
Amnesty is just one solution out of 100 solutions that may not necessarily solve the problems except all other solutions are applied and put into consideration in its totality, I can assure nothing positive would come out of amnesty solution.
Like Boko Haram, after rehabilitating them you still have to dislodge them from their natural habitat and take them to other places where they could not converge again for sinister plots, and stern instruction must be given to this effect.
Once they are together, they exchange ideas and form a force.
Same thing goes for herdsmen, if you give them amnesty and they are compelled to drop their guns, you still need to dislodge them from the forest, because one fact of the matter is that they have over time established their own government in the forest without anybody challenging them, so over time they have become lords unto themselves without iota of challenge from the constituted authority, so when you offer amnesty to Fulani herdsmen and you still allow them to go back to their natural haitat is as good as nothing doing anything, that is the message we should all learn from.
For all you care to know it has even reached a stage where the Fulanis no longer trust their Fulanis kinsmen, because the moment you are perceived or seen hobnobbing with the government you are labelled ”enemy”. If the government is giving amnesty give it in full swing, give them all the necessary things and hasten up their redicalisation process.
Q-Specifically any other solution.?
A-Like I said lots of solutions could be applied. For instance, in the case of Fulanis herdsmen, I once met with over 3000 of them who were ready to lay down their arms with conditions. But their major annoyance was that the government has been killing their leaders who were granted asylum, they claimed that the government security operative have been hiding under security related issues to embark on numerous extra judicial killings of their members for no reasons. I told them I must see the President over their complaint.
Most importantly, I don’t want to believe that you can apply criminality to resolve criminality. If you call them Fulani herdsmen, and you indulge in their extra judicial killings; the Fulanis too would be happy and eager to carry out reprisal attacks on villages and towns, certainly you don’t resolve the issue of criminality with criminality. It won’t work. We are just killing one another for no reasons.
Q-What do you think could have happened multi billion naira procured arms that could not really make significant impact in the battle against insecurity in Nigeria. We have the stories of lots of financial impropriety on the part of the Nigerian Military. Would you align with such stories.?
The issue of corruption and non productive efforts in Nigeria is quite worrisome. First, if you are being given money by the government officials for official jobs and responsibilities, thank your God if you get 50% of what you are supposed to be given for the job. Ironically, part of the other 50% would still go back to the people you should be fighting. We have endemic corruption in Nigeria, especially in the military, it’s so frightening, and I don’t think anything would change until we build up a modern army. The Nigerian Armed Forces are so enmeshed in corrupt practices, and I can swear to that with my Holy Quaran.
The have been treating the people badly. They kill and detain people unnecessarily. And all the bandits are asking for is that they the military should release their members so that there can be peace.
Take for instance, the kidnappers of the students of the Federal Government College, Yauri, Kebbi State claimed to have carried out the kidnapping to express their anger over detention of their colleagues, and all they have been asking is release of members in order to return the abducted students. They emphasized it that they were not interested in money or any form of ransom , all they want is the release of their members, so why do you incarcerate them. Bandits feel cheated; they feel aggrieved until the matter is addressed the killings would just be going round and round.
Those who advocate military attack for bandits forget so soon that the bandits too also have the capacity to attack villages and towns.
I’m telling that the bandits have the capacity to attack Abuja, if they so desire, and it would be very bloody, so what are talking about.
All the government need to do is to just sit down with them to resolve issues not by embarking on endless unlawful incarceration of innocent people which the military takes delight in doing. Things are not done this way in other civilized climes.
Now in the United States of America, no police evidence is accepted except such a policeman has his body camera on. This is being carried out in order to avert police brutality. Just imagine something like this is happening in an advance country like the US, but again the America is also conscious of the possibility that the policeman in the course of his duties could be triggered by prejudice or racism just to kill an innocent person because of the colour on his skin, if this is the case in the US, you can imagine what it would look like in a tribal society like ours.
Q-What do you think of Sunday Igboho and Nnamdi Kanu agitations. Does it look like self help theory?
Lets face the fact, their actions were caused by the injustice and neglect on the part of the government. Yes of course they are bitter and aggrieved. Personally, I don’t have any grudges against them, but let them step forward with their demands to the government. What exactly do they want,? But, in all these, I would not subscribe to their idea of breaking up Nigeria. That’s red line! The duo of Igboho and Kanu cannot claim to be speaking on behalf of the Yorubas and Ibos as the case may be.
Yorubas and Ibos are all over the country in their millions doing their legitimate businesses and living in harmony with other Nigerians. It will now be extremely wrong for individuals like Igboho and Kanu to come out and say they speaking on behalf of the people. It’s wrong. They cannot take to personal adventure of wanting to break up the country at the expense of millions of Nigerians home and abroad. It won’t work. If at all there is need for a section of the country to pull out this can only be achieved through referendum not by taking up arms against the legitimate elected government and constituted authority, not by causing confusion in the country in the country.
Q-Would you tell us your experience in the bush with bandits at your various meeting with them.?
Well, before the issue of calling them terrorists cropped up, I had met with them severally, and I got to know that really they are actually ready for peaceful dialogue if the government makes up its mind today.
It was a serious business meeting with them in the bush, some of them would travel 2 or 3 days to the meeting arena. They travelled from long distances not to and drink tea or take photographs, they came so as to create avenue for peaceful resolutions. It’s much easier to negotiate and dialogue with the aggrieved bandits than to take up arms against them. All the bandits keep complaining about is the unjustified detention and killings of their members for no reasons. Of course they appear hell bent in retaliation. They are not as murderous as people thing; it’s much easier to negotiate with them and ask them questions
Q-Has government been of assistance to you in these mediatory moves you have single handedly embarked upon?
A-Well government is a big organ, and we have been working together very well.
Each I needed to go into the bush to negotiate with bandits, government would provide me all the necessary escorts and support. The Police and DSS operatives of course were made available for my security.
The bandits exhume a great deal of confidence!, while some of them would look straight into your face and tell you to come to the meeting arena with whatever security you want to come with; the other group would give you a predetermine point where your security would disengage or stop, and its only me that would trek down to meet with them face to face for our meeting.